[MediaWiki-l] Announcing: the Enterprise MediaWiki Consortium

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[MediaWiki-l] Announcing: the Enterprise MediaWiki Consortium

Yaron Koren
Hi,

I'm very excited to announce the launch of the Enterprise MediaWiki
Consortium (EMC), an organization devoted to supporting and maintaining
"enterprise MediaWiki" software.

As you may know, a lot of open-source software has some sort of
organization or foundation that is intended to pool money from users of the
software toward developers. MediaWiki is in an unusual situation: it is
funded by the Wikimedia Foundation (and, to a lesser extent, Wikimedia
Deutschland and others), but those organizations' primary allegiance is to
software that runs on Wikimedia sites. That leaves a lot of
MediaWiki-related software (extensions, skins, etc.) that is mostly
intended for use on non-Wikimedia sites, i.e. "enterprise" uses: some of
this software has significant usage, but very little of it has
institutional support.

That is where the Enterprise MediaWiki Consortium fits in. It is intended
to fund the development of extensions and other software that otherwise has
no funding source. The set of software being funded is entirely up to the
membership of the EMC, and of course the amount of support that can be
provided depends on the amount of money that members contribute - an amount
that will hopefully grow over time.

If you belong to an organization, company or website that makes use of
MediaWiki - and specifically, of MediaWiki-related software not used on
Wikimedia sites - please consider joining the Enterprise MediaWiki
Consortium - to provide much-needed support for the software you use, and
to have a greater say in shaping its future.

You can read more about the EMC here:

http://enterprisemediawikiconsortium.org/

-Yaron
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Re: [MediaWiki-l] Announcing: the Enterprise MediaWiki Consortium

Pine W
Thanks for the announcement.

I see that membership has a minimum price of $2,000 per year. Why is there
a fee to join the organization?

Is the organization a 501(c)(3)?

Who are the owners or directors of the organization?

Thank you,

Pine


On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 7:49 AM, Yaron Koren <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm very excited to announce the launch of the Enterprise MediaWiki
> Consortium (EMC), an organization devoted to supporting and maintaining
> "enterprise MediaWiki" software.
>
> As you may know, a lot of open-source software has some sort of
> organization or foundation that is intended to pool money from users of the
> software toward developers. MediaWiki is in an unusual situation: it is
> funded by the Wikimedia Foundation (and, to a lesser extent, Wikimedia
> Deutschland and others), but those organizations' primary allegiance is to
> software that runs on Wikimedia sites. That leaves a lot of
> MediaWiki-related software (extensions, skins, etc.) that is mostly
> intended for use on non-Wikimedia sites, i.e. "enterprise" uses: some of
> this software has significant usage, but very little of it has
> institutional support.
>
> That is where the Enterprise MediaWiki Consortium fits in. It is intended
> to fund the development of extensions and other software that otherwise has
> no funding source. The set of software being funded is entirely up to the
> membership of the EMC, and of course the amount of support that can be
> provided depends on the amount of money that members contribute - an amount
> that will hopefully grow over time.
>
> If you belong to an organization, company or website that makes use of
> MediaWiki - and specifically, of MediaWiki-related software not used on
> Wikimedia sites - please consider joining the Enterprise MediaWiki
> Consortium - to provide much-needed support for the software you use, and
> to have a greater say in shaping its future.
>
> You can read more about the EMC here:
>
> http://enterprisemediawikiconsortium.org/
>
> -Yaron
> _______________________________________________
> MediaWiki-l mailing list
> To unsubscribe, go to:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
>
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Re: [MediaWiki-l] Announcing: the Enterprise MediaWiki Consortium

Yaron Koren
Hi Pine,

Thanks for your questions.

On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 1:27 PM, Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thanks for the announcement.
>
> I see that membership has a minimum price of $2,000 per year. Why is there
> a fee to join the organization?
>

Because money is the main focus of this organization - specifically,
getting funds from organizational users of the software and putting it to
use in development, evangelism, etc. Of course, a lot of development and
evangelism can be done for free, but that's not the main focus of the EMC.
There are other organizations that handle volunteer efforts at improving
parts of "enterprise MediaWiki", most notably the MediaWiki Stakeholders'
Group:

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki_Stakeholders%27_Group


>
> Is the organization a 501(c)(3)?
>

No, but the hope is for it to become an official nonprofit, either by
becoming a 501(c)(3) or via another route. In the last few years the IRS
has apparently been less willing to give 501(c)(3) status to open-source
software organizations like this one, with some high-profile rejections
like the OpenStack Foundation. I haven't tried applying to the IRS yet,
though, so we'll see.


>
> Who are the owners or directors of the organization?
>

At the moment, I'm the sole owner and director.

-Yaron


>
> Thank you,
>
> Pine
>
>
> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 7:49 AM, Yaron Koren <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm very excited to announce the launch of the Enterprise MediaWiki
> > Consortium (EMC), an organization devoted to supporting and maintaining
> > "enterprise MediaWiki" software.
> >
> > As you may know, a lot of open-source software has some sort of
> > organization or foundation that is intended to pool money from users of
> the
> > software toward developers. MediaWiki is in an unusual situation: it is
> > funded by the Wikimedia Foundation (and, to a lesser extent, Wikimedia
> > Deutschland and others), but those organizations' primary allegiance is
> to
> > software that runs on Wikimedia sites. That leaves a lot of
> > MediaWiki-related software (extensions, skins, etc.) that is mostly
> > intended for use on non-Wikimedia sites, i.e. "enterprise" uses: some of
> > this software has significant usage, but very little of it has
> > institutional support.
> >
> > That is where the Enterprise MediaWiki Consortium fits in. It is intended
> > to fund the development of extensions and other software that otherwise
> has
> > no funding source. The set of software being funded is entirely up to the
> > membership of the EMC, and of course the amount of support that can be
> > provided depends on the amount of money that members contribute - an
> amount
> > that will hopefully grow over time.
> >
> > If you belong to an organization, company or website that makes use of
> > MediaWiki - and specifically, of MediaWiki-related software not used on
> > Wikimedia sites - please consider joining the Enterprise MediaWiki
> > Consortium - to provide much-needed support for the software you use, and
> > to have a greater say in shaping its future.
> >
> > You can read more about the EMC here:
> >
> > http://enterprisemediawikiconsortium.org/
> >
> > -Yaron
> > _______________________________________________
> > MediaWiki-l mailing list
> > To unsubscribe, go to:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> MediaWiki-l mailing list
> To unsubscribe, go to:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
>



--
WikiWorks · MediaWiki Consulting · http://wikiworks.com
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Re: [MediaWiki-l] Announcing: the Enterprise MediaWiki Consortium

Pine W
Hi Yaron,

You might have a look at 501(c)(6). I have very limited familiarity with
it, but it seems to be used by business services cooperatives and at least
one nonprofit software support organization.

I would encourage you to get more people on your board, preferably people
who are well placed in the kinds of organizations that you would like to
support.

While I don't mean to discourage you, I think you are very early in the
business formation process. Getting board members who are experienced
businesspeople could help both the organization's credibility and the
organization's formation process. You might also benefit from advice from a
CPA and/or small business attorney. I am assuming that you are located in
the United States; if that is so then I would encourage you to contact your
local office of the U.S. Small Business Administration for advice.

Good luck,

Pine


On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 10:46 AM, Yaron Koren <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Pine,
>
> Thanks for your questions.
>
> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 1:27 PM, Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Thanks for the announcement.
> >
> > I see that membership has a minimum price of $2,000 per year. Why is
> there
> > a fee to join the organization?
> >
>
> Because money is the main focus of this organization - specifically,
> getting funds from organizational users of the software and putting it to
> use in development, evangelism, etc. Of course, a lot of development and
> evangelism can be done for free, but that's not the main focus of the EMC.
> There are other organizations that handle volunteer efforts at improving
> parts of "enterprise MediaWiki", most notably the MediaWiki Stakeholders'
> Group:
>
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki_Stakeholders%27_Group
>
>
> >
> > Is the organization a 501(c)(3)?
> >
>
> No, but the hope is for it to become an official nonprofit, either by
> becoming a 501(c)(3) or via another route. In the last few years the IRS
> has apparently been less willing to give 501(c)(3) status to open-source
> software organizations like this one, with some high-profile rejections
> like the OpenStack Foundation. I haven't tried applying to the IRS yet,
> though, so we'll see.
>
>
> >
> > Who are the owners or directors of the organization?
> >
>
> At the moment, I'm the sole owner and director.
>
> -Yaron
>
>
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > Pine
> >
> >
> > On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 7:49 AM, Yaron Koren <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I'm very excited to announce the launch of the Enterprise MediaWiki
> > > Consortium (EMC), an organization devoted to supporting and maintaining
> > > "enterprise MediaWiki" software.
> > >
> > > As you may know, a lot of open-source software has some sort of
> > > organization or foundation that is intended to pool money from users of
> > the
> > > software toward developers. MediaWiki is in an unusual situation: it is
> > > funded by the Wikimedia Foundation (and, to a lesser extent, Wikimedia
> > > Deutschland and others), but those organizations' primary allegiance is
> > to
> > > software that runs on Wikimedia sites. That leaves a lot of
> > > MediaWiki-related software (extensions, skins, etc.) that is mostly
> > > intended for use on non-Wikimedia sites, i.e. "enterprise" uses: some
> of
> > > this software has significant usage, but very little of it has
> > > institutional support.
> > >
> > > That is where the Enterprise MediaWiki Consortium fits in. It is
> intended
> > > to fund the development of extensions and other software that otherwise
> > has
> > > no funding source. The set of software being funded is entirely up to
> the
> > > membership of the EMC, and of course the amount of support that can be
> > > provided depends on the amount of money that members contribute - an
> > amount
> > > that will hopefully grow over time.
> > >
> > > If you belong to an organization, company or website that makes use of
> > > MediaWiki - and specifically, of MediaWiki-related software not used on
> > > Wikimedia sites - please consider joining the Enterprise MediaWiki
> > > Consortium - to provide much-needed support for the software you use,
> and
> > > to have a greater say in shaping its future.
> > >
> > > You can read more about the EMC here:
> > >
> > > http://enterprisemediawikiconsortium.org/
> > >
> > > -Yaron
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > MediaWiki-l mailing list
> > > To unsubscribe, go to:
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > MediaWiki-l mailing list
> > To unsubscribe, go to:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
> >
>
>
>
> --
> WikiWorks · MediaWiki Consulting · http://wikiworks.com
> _______________________________________________
> MediaWiki-l mailing list
> To unsubscribe, go to:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
>
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Re: [MediaWiki-l] Announcing: the Enterprise MediaWiki Consortium

Yaron Koren
Thanks for all the advice. I'm aware of the 501(c)(6) option - that's also
a possibility.

On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 2:09 PM, Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Yaron,
>
> You might have a look at 501(c)(6). I have very limited familiarity with
> it, but it seems to be used by business services cooperatives and at least
> one nonprofit software support organization.
>
> I would encourage you to get more people on your board, preferably people
> who are well placed in the kinds of organizations that you would like to
> support.
>
> While I don't mean to discourage you, I think you are very early in the
> business formation process. Getting board members who are experienced
> businesspeople could help both the organization's credibility and the
> organization's formation process. You might also benefit from advice from a
> CPA and/or small business attorney. I am assuming that you are located in
> the United States; if that is so then I would encourage you to contact your
> local office of the U.S. Small Business Administration for advice.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Pine
>
>
> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 10:46 AM, Yaron Koren <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi Pine,
> >
> > Thanks for your questions.
> >
> > On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 1:27 PM, Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks for the announcement.
> > >
> > > I see that membership has a minimum price of $2,000 per year. Why is
> > there
> > > a fee to join the organization?
> > >
> >
> > Because money is the main focus of this organization - specifically,
> > getting funds from organizational users of the software and putting it to
> > use in development, evangelism, etc. Of course, a lot of development and
> > evangelism can be done for free, but that's not the main focus of the
> EMC.
> > There are other organizations that handle volunteer efforts at improving
> > parts of "enterprise MediaWiki", most notably the MediaWiki Stakeholders'
> > Group:
> >
> > https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki_Stakeholders%27_Group
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Is the organization a 501(c)(3)?
> > >
> >
> > No, but the hope is for it to become an official nonprofit, either by
> > becoming a 501(c)(3) or via another route. In the last few years the IRS
> > has apparently been less willing to give 501(c)(3) status to open-source
> > software organizations like this one, with some high-profile rejections
> > like the OpenStack Foundation. I haven't tried applying to the IRS yet,
> > though, so we'll see.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Who are the owners or directors of the organization?
> > >
> >
> > At the moment, I'm the sole owner and director.
> >
> > -Yaron
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Thank you,
> > >
> > > Pine
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 7:49 AM, Yaron Koren <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I'm very excited to announce the launch of the Enterprise MediaWiki
> > > > Consortium (EMC), an organization devoted to supporting and
> maintaining
> > > > "enterprise MediaWiki" software.
> > > >
> > > > As you may know, a lot of open-source software has some sort of
> > > > organization or foundation that is intended to pool money from users
> of
> > > the
> > > > software toward developers. MediaWiki is in an unusual situation: it
> is
> > > > funded by the Wikimedia Foundation (and, to a lesser extent,
> Wikimedia
> > > > Deutschland and others), but those organizations' primary allegiance
> is
> > > to
> > > > software that runs on Wikimedia sites. That leaves a lot of
> > > > MediaWiki-related software (extensions, skins, etc.) that is mostly
> > > > intended for use on non-Wikimedia sites, i.e. "enterprise" uses: some
> > of
> > > > this software has significant usage, but very little of it has
> > > > institutional support.
> > > >
> > > > That is where the Enterprise MediaWiki Consortium fits in. It is
> > intended
> > > > to fund the development of extensions and other software that
> otherwise
> > > has
> > > > no funding source. The set of software being funded is entirely up to
> > the
> > > > membership of the EMC, and of course the amount of support that can
> be
> > > > provided depends on the amount of money that members contribute - an
> > > amount
> > > > that will hopefully grow over time.
> > > >
> > > > If you belong to an organization, company or website that makes use
> of
> > > > MediaWiki - and specifically, of MediaWiki-related software not used
> on
> > > > Wikimedia sites - please consider joining the Enterprise MediaWiki
> > > > Consortium - to provide much-needed support for the software you use,
> > and
> > > > to have a greater say in shaping its future.
> > > >
> > > > You can read more about the EMC here:
> > > >
> > > > http://enterprisemediawikiconsortium.org/
> > > >
> > > > -Yaron
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > MediaWiki-l mailing list
> > > > To unsubscribe, go to:
> > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > MediaWiki-l mailing list
> > > To unsubscribe, go to:
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > WikiWorks · MediaWiki Consulting · http://wikiworks.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > MediaWiki-l mailing list
> > To unsubscribe, go to:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> MediaWiki-l mailing list
> To unsubscribe, go to:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
>



--
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Re: [MediaWiki-l] Announcing: the Enterprise MediaWiki Consortium

Legoktm
In reply to this post by Yaron Koren
Hi,

On 05/24/2017 07:49 AM, Yaron Koren wrote:
> I'm very excited to announce the launch of the Enterprise MediaWiki
> Consortium (EMC), an organization devoted to supporting and maintaining
> "enterprise MediaWiki" software.

While I'm excited that someone is finally taking this on, I'm also a bit
concerned.

* Did you receive approval from the Wikimedia Foundation's legal
department to use the MediaWiki trademark?
* What is the roadmap of the organization? What is the planned
governance model?

Thanks,
-- Legoktm

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Re: [MediaWiki-l] Announcing: the Enterprise MediaWiki Consortium

Yaron Koren
Hi,

On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 3:26 PM, Legoktm <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 05/24/2017 07:49 AM, Yaron Koren wrote:
> > I'm very excited to announce the launch of the Enterprise MediaWiki
> > Consortium (EMC), an organization devoted to supporting and maintaining
> > "enterprise MediaWiki" software.
>
> While I'm excited that someone is finally taking this on, I'm also a bit
> concerned.
>
> * Did you receive approval from the Wikimedia Foundation's legal
> department to use the MediaWiki trademark?
>

No, and I haven't asked. For what it's worth, I've been involved with other
projects that used the word "MediaWiki" (like the book "Working with
MediaWiki", and the Enterprise MediaWiki Conference), and I didn't ask
permission for those either. I'm guessing that it won't be an issue, but if
it is, I'll be happy to talk to the relevant people about it.


> * What is the roadmap of the organization? What is the planned
> governance model?
>

As I said before, it would be great to have nonprofit status in one way or
another, and it would be great to have a board of directors and so on. At
the moment, the key goal is bringing in more member organizations. As for
decision-making, the idea is that members' votes are tied to the amount of
money they put in - so more or less, every member organization decides how
it wants its own contribution to be spent. Though of course there will be
coordination and discussion. I don't know if that answers your questions.

-Yaron


> Thanks,
> -- Legoktm
>
> _______________________________________________
> MediaWiki-l mailing list
> To unsubscribe, go to:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
>



--
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Re: [MediaWiki-l] Announcing: the Enterprise MediaWiki Consortium

Pine W
As much as I think that such a cooperative would be a good idea, it sounds
to me like you're a long distance from being able to bring the vision to
reality. With a few months of work and a good professional network you
might be able to pull this off. But you're coming across to me as someone
who's completely new to running a business, and I would find it very
difficult to trust my company's money to someone in your position. That's
not to say that your intentions are bad, it's just that I don't think that
this is the business for you to be running here and now. You might very
well *work* for such a business and be very good in your role, and maybe
after a couple of years you will indeed end up in the lead role. I admire
your ambition, and perhaps you have skills and professional contacts that I
don't know about, but from what I've learned so far, I wouldn't encourage
enterprise MediaWiki users to join your organization at this time, and I
think that you would do better with a different goal, at least in the short
term.

I hope that I don't come across as being negative about your ambition. Some
of your instincts are good, and perhaps in a few years you will indeed be
in a good position to lead an organization like the one you have in mind.

Pine
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Re: [MediaWiki-l] Announcing: the Enterprise MediaWiki Consortium

Legoktm
In reply to this post by Yaron Koren
Hi,

On 05/24/2017 01:20 PM, Yaron Koren wrote:
>> * Did you receive approval from the Wikimedia Foundation's legal
>> department to use the MediaWiki trademark?
>>
>
> No, and I haven't asked. For what it's worth, I've been involved with other
> projects that used the word "MediaWiki" (like the book "Working with
> MediaWiki", and the Enterprise MediaWiki Conference), and I didn't ask
> permission for those either. I'm guessing that it won't be an issue, but if
> it is, I'll be happy to talk to the relevant people about it.

I think writing a book about open source software and soliciting
donations online are different from a trademark perspective but IANAL.
Someone else already let WMF legal know, so I'm sure they'll reach out
to you if there are any issues.

>> * What is the roadmap of the organization? What is the planned
>> governance model?
>>
>
> As I said before, it would be great to have nonprofit status in one way or
> another, and it would be great to have a board of directors and so on. At
> the moment, the key goal is bringing in more member organizations. As for
> decision-making, the idea is that members' votes are tied to the amount of
> money they put in - so more or less, every member organization decides how
> it wants its own contribution to be spent. Though of course there will be
> coordination and discussion. I don't know if that answers your questions.

I'm mostly trying to understand what is the expected outcome of this.

* Will you/the org be contributing to MediaWiki core? Or will all
development take place in extensions?
* What kind of work do you expect to be taking on? Will the
planning/resource allocation process be public so interested developers
can help out (I'm thinking like Wikimedia's Community Wishlist)
* Will all the code be OSI licensed, preferably GPL v2+? Or will it be
private and owned by the member organizations that asked for it?
* Will the organization maintain the code it writes? Or will it just be
one-off projects of writing code and publishing it?

To be clear, I'm very excited that you are interested in working on this
(and have wanted someone to pick this up for a while now), but I'm
concerned about what seems like a lack of structure/transparency/etc.
for an organization that I would like to promote and ask companies to
donate to.

-- Legoktm

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Re: [MediaWiki-l] Announcing: the Enterprise MediaWiki Consortium

Yaron Koren
In reply to this post by Pine W
Hi,

I don't know how to respond to that, other than that (a) I have a lot of
experience running a business (my company WikiWorks), and (b) this isn't
really a business - it's a consortium, whose primary tasks are the pooling
and disbursement of money.

-Yaron

On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 2:12 AM, Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:

> As much as I think that such a cooperative would be a good idea, it sounds
> to me like you're a long distance from being able to bring the vision to
> reality. With a few months of work and a good professional network you
> might be able to pull this off. But you're coming across to me as someone
> who's completely new to running a business, and I would find it very
> difficult to trust my company's money to someone in your position. That's
> not to say that your intentions are bad, it's just that I don't think that
> this is the business for you to be running here and now. You might very
> well *work* for such a business and be very good in your role, and maybe
> after a couple of years you will indeed end up in the lead role. I admire
> your ambition, and perhaps you have skills and professional contacts that I
> don't know about, but from what I've learned so far, I wouldn't encourage
> enterprise MediaWiki users to join your organization at this time, and I
> think that you would do better with a different goal, at least in the short
> term.
>
> I hope that I don't come across as being negative about your ambition. Some
> of your instincts are good, and perhaps in a few years you will indeed be
> in a good position to lead an organization like the one you have in mind.
>
> Pine
> _______________________________________________
> MediaWiki-l mailing list
> To unsubscribe, go to:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
>



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Re: [MediaWiki-l] Announcing: the Enterprise MediaWiki Consortium

Yaron Koren
In reply to this post by Legoktm
Hi,

On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 3:17 AM, Legoktm <[hidden email]>
wrote:
>
>
> I think writing a book about open source software and soliciting
> donations online are different from a trademark perspective but IANAL.
> Someone else already let WMF legal know, so I'm sure they'll reach out
> to you if there are any issues.
>

Great.


>
> I'm mostly trying to understand what is the expected outcome of this.
>
> * Will you/the org be contributing to MediaWiki core? Or will all
> development take place in extensions?
> * What kind of work do you expect to be taking on? Will the
> planning/resource allocation process be public so interested developers
> can help out (I'm thinking like Wikimedia's Community Wishlist)
> * Will all the code be OSI licensed, preferably GPL v2+? Or will it be
> private and owned by the member organizations that asked for it?
> * Will the organization maintain the code it writes? Or will it just be
> one-off projects of writing code and publishing it?
>

The short answer is that the money will be spent pretty much on whatever
member organizations want it to be spent on. Potentially that could involve
changes to MediaWiki core, yes - though that of course would require
coordinating with the relevant developers and community. (The same goes for
modifying any existing extension, though there coordination would be a much
easier task.) Potentially it could involve creating closed-source software
also, though I can't imagine a situation where that would happen - if a
company wanted to have its own proprietary MediaWiki software, it wouldn't
need to go through the EMC to do it. (Actually, I can think of one
potential case - an anti-spam system whose inner algorithm is deliberately
kept secret, in the manner of WordPress's Akismet.)

Long-term software maintenance will, I'd imagine, be the main focus of this
consortium - that's the main reason why I created it. Again, though, it's
not really up to me.


>
> To be clear, I'm very excited that you are interested in working on this
> (and have wanted someone to pick this up for a while now), but I'm
> concerned about what seems like a lack of structure/transparency/etc.
> for an organization that I would like to promote and ask companies to
> donate to.
>

Alright. I hope you do! And I'm happy to answer any other questions.

-Yaron


>
> -- Legoktm
>
> _______________________________________________
> MediaWiki-l mailing list
> To unsubscribe, go to:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
>



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Re: [MediaWiki-l] Announcing: the Enterprise MediaWiki Consortium

Brian Wolff
In reply to this post by Yaron Koren
On Wednesday, May 24, 2017, Yaron Koren <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm very excited to announce the launch of the Enterprise MediaWiki
> Consortium (EMC), an organization devoted to supporting and maintaining
> "enterprise MediaWiki" software.
>
> As you may know, a lot of open-source software has some sort of
> organization or foundation that is intended to pool money from users of
the

> software toward developers. MediaWiki is in an unusual situation: it is
> funded by the Wikimedia Foundation (and, to a lesser extent, Wikimedia
> Deutschland and others), but those organizations' primary allegiance is to
> software that runs on Wikimedia sites. That leaves a lot of
> MediaWiki-related software (extensions, skins, etc.) that is mostly
> intended for use on non-Wikimedia sites, i.e. "enterprise" uses: some of
> this software has significant usage, but very little of it has
> institutional support.
>
> That is where the Enterprise MediaWiki Consortium fits in. It is intended
> to fund the development of extensions and other software that otherwise
has
> no funding source. The set of software being funded is entirely up to the
> membership of the EMC, and of course the amount of support that can be
> provided depends on the amount of money that members contribute - an
amount

> that will hopefully grow over time.
>
> If you belong to an organization, company or website that makes use of
> MediaWiki - and specifically, of MediaWiki-related software not used on
> Wikimedia sites - please consider joining the Enterprise MediaWiki
> Consortium - to provide much-needed support for the software you use, and
> to have a greater say in shaping its future.
>
> You can read more about the EMC here:
>
> http://enterprisemediawikiconsortium.org/
>
> -Yaron
> _______________________________________________
> MediaWiki-l mailing list
> To unsubscribe, go to:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
>

Out of curiosity, what is the relation between this group and
MWStakeholders group. Im given to understand that MWStake was also
considering having a corporate sponsership thing too (I may bemistaken on
that though). Do you envision the two groups working together, or do you
see them as being entirely separate and independent?

Best of luck in this new venture,

--
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Re: [MediaWiki-l] Announcing: the Enterprise MediaWiki Consortium

Yaron Koren
Hi Brian,

That's a reasonable question. Both this consortium and the MediaWiki
Stakeholders' Group have the general aim of making things better for
"enterprise" users of MediaWiki, but beyond that the two have surprisingly
different goals and approaches. The MediaWiki Stakeholders' Group, or
MWStake, has a large number of goals, but a big part of it, as I
understand, is working with the Wikimedia Foundation and core MediaWiki
developers to make sure that the needs and desires of enterprise users are
taken into account. That sort of advocacy is not what the EMC is concerned
with. On the other hand, MWStake also does some coordination on volunteer
efforts at software improvement, so in that sense the two are more similar.

I'm not familiar with a corporate sponsorship thing for MWStake, but even
if that happens, the two are quite different in terms of their
decision-making approach. Anyone can join MWStake, and then decisions are
made (as I understand it) via discussion and consensus. With the EMC, you
have to pay to get in, and then there's a precise system of weighted voting
to allocate the funds.

It certainly could happen that the two organizations could coordinate, yes.
And some companies could end up being members of both. Nonetheless, I see
these as distinct organizations, and it seems like there's a need for both.

Thanks!

-Yaron

On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 12:25 PM, Brian Wolff <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wednesday, May 24, 2017, Yaron Koren <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm very excited to announce the launch of the Enterprise MediaWiki
> > Consortium (EMC), an organization devoted to supporting and maintaining
> > "enterprise MediaWiki" software.
> >
> > As you may know, a lot of open-source software has some sort of
> > organization or foundation that is intended to pool money from users of
> the
> > software toward developers. MediaWiki is in an unusual situation: it is
> > funded by the Wikimedia Foundation (and, to a lesser extent, Wikimedia
> > Deutschland and others), but those organizations' primary allegiance is
> to
> > software that runs on Wikimedia sites. That leaves a lot of
> > MediaWiki-related software (extensions, skins, etc.) that is mostly
> > intended for use on non-Wikimedia sites, i.e. "enterprise" uses: some of
> > this software has significant usage, but very little of it has
> > institutional support.
> >
> > That is where the Enterprise MediaWiki Consortium fits in. It is intended
> > to fund the development of extensions and other software that otherwise
> has
> > no funding source. The set of software being funded is entirely up to the
> > membership of the EMC, and of course the amount of support that can be
> > provided depends on the amount of money that members contribute - an
> amount
> > that will hopefully grow over time.
> >
> > If you belong to an organization, company or website that makes use of
> > MediaWiki - and specifically, of MediaWiki-related software not used on
> > Wikimedia sites - please consider joining the Enterprise MediaWiki
> > Consortium - to provide much-needed support for the software you use, and
> > to have a greater say in shaping its future.
> >
> > You can read more about the EMC here:
> >
> > http://enterprisemediawikiconsortium.org/
> >
> > -Yaron
> > _______________________________________________
> > MediaWiki-l mailing list
> > To unsubscribe, go to:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
> >
>
> Out of curiosity, what is the relation between this group and
> MWStakeholders group. Im given to understand that MWStake was also
> considering having a corporate sponsership thing too (I may bemistaken on
> that though). Do you envision the two groups working together, or do you
> see them as being entirely separate and independent?
>
> Best of luck in this new venture,
>
> --
> Brian
> _______________________________________________
> MediaWiki-l mailing list
> To unsubscribe, go to:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
>



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Re: [MediaWiki-l] Announcing: the Enterprise MediaWiki Consortium

Markus Glaser
In reply to this post by Yaron Koren
Hello everyone,

Following the announcement of an Enterprise MediaWiki Consortium (EMC) by Yaron Koren, Brian Wolff and others asked about the position of the MediaWiki Stakeholders' Group (MWStake) with respect to this intiative. The announced enterprise consortium seems to be a structured organisation led by Yaron. MWStake is a user group and Wikimedia affiliation. We, MWStake, care for and are open to all involved parties. Naturally, EMC is also a stakeholder in the MediaWiki world and is of course always invited to join us.

The stated goals of MWStake and the consortium are different - and complementary. MWStake is supportive of the existence of the consortium as it is of the many other organizations that contribute software to the MediaWiki ecosystem. We think Yaron's consortium can serve the purpose of providing an aggregation of funding to support development projects that might be too large for a single organization to fund themselves.

However, MWStake's vision is broader. Our approach is to work as a community. We aim to foster the MediaWiki community and integrate them with concerted projects. We also seek to intensify the cooperation between third-party users and the creator/owner of MediaWiki, the Wikimedia Foundation. For that reason, the membership of MWStake consists of people from both WMF and the third-party community. We discuss common problems on a regular basis and work collaboratively towards integrative solutions and standards - because we have enough one-off solutions and extensions that reinvent the wheel. We'd like to focus on the challange of creating coherent systems. Following that approach, we aim to make the MediaWiki platform a first-class entity in the movement, as we see MediaWiki usage outside of WMF projects as part and parcel of the WMF vison. Specifically, "every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge" by providing them with the means for independently sharing their own knowledge.

A word about institutionalisation: We plan to incorporate when the time is right. Presently, we think that this will be when we have finished some projects and have created a sufficiently large network of organisations and corporations that will join and contribute.

Some of our accomplishments so far: We regularly open common places and communication channels for all stakeholders by organizing panels, presentations and discussions at conferences and meetings (e.g. the "Fantastic MediaWiki" track at the Hackathon in Vienna). Moreover, we are making requirements by third-party users visible (e.g. the MediaWiki user survey and feature wishlist). As individuals, we contribute to the MediaWiki project over a wide range of developments, bugfixes, code contributions and translations. These include PluggableAuth, HitCounters, DisplayTitle, extension store discussion, and more. Increasingly, we coordinate our concrete development efforts.

So what are our next steps? We are going to restart the LDAP extension following the concrete plan of action which was devised in a public meeting at the Vienna Hackathon. We will improve extension documentation of  extensions maintained by members of MWStake (about 100) at MediaWiki.org. And we work on the visibilty of current MediaWiki developments to foster the attractiveness of the platform.

We agree with Yaron's position that the organisations EMC and MWStake actually have different goals and strategies. EMC, it seems, is mainly looking for companies which want to share maintenance costs for popular extensions. Meanwhile, MWStake seeks to integrate and coordinate the efforts around MediaWiki without requiring a monetary contribution.  Any cooperation with organizations like EMC is welcome.

We encourage MediaWiki users to work with Yaron and the EMC if that fits their needs, but we also welcome them to collaborate with the WMF and us to make MediaWiki better for everyone.

This text was jointly written by
Mark Hershberger, Cindy Cicalese, Richard Heigl, Markus Glaser
MediaWiki Stakeholders Group


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: MediaWiki-l [mailto:[hidden email]] Im Auftrag von Yaron Koren
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 25. Mai 2017 19:54
An: MediaWiki announcements and site admin list <[hidden email]>
Betreff: Re: [MediaWiki-l] Announcing: the Enterprise MediaWiki Consortium

Hi Brian,

That's a reasonable question. Both this consortium and the MediaWiki Stakeholders' Group have the general aim of making things better for "enterprise" users of MediaWiki, but beyond that the two have surprisingly different goals and approaches. The MediaWiki Stakeholders' Group, or MWStake, has a large number of goals, but a big part of it, as I understand, is working with the Wikimedia Foundation and core MediaWiki developers to make sure that the needs and desires of enterprise users are taken into account. That sort of advocacy is not what the EMC is concerned with. On the other hand, MWStake also does some coordination on volunteer efforts at software improvement, so in that sense the two are more similar.

I'm not familiar with a corporate sponsorship thing for MWStake, but even if that happens, the two are quite different in terms of their decision-making approach. Anyone can join MWStake, and then decisions are made (as I understand it) via discussion and consensus. With the EMC, you have to pay to get in, and then there's a precise system of weighted voting to allocate the funds.

It certainly could happen that the two organizations could coordinate, yes.
And some companies could end up being members of both. Nonetheless, I see these as distinct organizations, and it seems like there's a need for both.

Thanks!

-Yaron

On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 12:25 PM, Brian Wolff <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wednesday, May 24, 2017, Yaron Koren <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm very excited to announce the launch of the Enterprise MediaWiki
> > Consortium (EMC), an organization devoted to supporting and
> > maintaining "enterprise MediaWiki" software.
> >
> > As you may know, a lot of open-source software has some sort of
> > organization or foundation that is intended to pool money from users
> > of
> the
> > software toward developers. MediaWiki is in an unusual situation: it
> > is funded by the Wikimedia Foundation (and, to a lesser extent,
> > Wikimedia Deutschland and others), but those organizations' primary
> > allegiance is
> to
> > software that runs on Wikimedia sites. That leaves a lot of
> > MediaWiki-related software (extensions, skins, etc.) that is mostly
> > intended for use on non-Wikimedia sites, i.e. "enterprise" uses:
> > some of this software has significant usage, but very little of it
> > has institutional support.
> >
> > That is where the Enterprise MediaWiki Consortium fits in. It is
> > intended to fund the development of extensions and other software
> > that otherwise
> has
> > no funding source. The set of software being funded is entirely up
> > to the membership of the EMC, and of course the amount of support
> > that can be provided depends on the amount of money that members
> > contribute - an
> amount
> > that will hopefully grow over time.
> >
> > If you belong to an organization, company or website that makes use
> > of MediaWiki - and specifically, of MediaWiki-related software not
> > used on Wikimedia sites - please consider joining the Enterprise
> > MediaWiki Consortium - to provide much-needed support for the
> > software you use, and to have a greater say in shaping its future.
> >
> > You can read more about the EMC here:
> >
> > http://enterprisemediawikiconsortium.org/
> >
> > -Yaron
> > _______________________________________________
> > MediaWiki-l mailing list
> > To unsubscribe, go to:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
> >
>
> Out of curiosity, what is the relation between this group and
> MWStakeholders group. Im given to understand that MWStake was also
> considering having a corporate sponsership thing too (I may bemistaken
> on that though). Do you envision the two groups working together, or
> do you see them as being entirely separate and independent?
>
> Best of luck in this new venture,
>
> --
> Brian
> _______________________________________________
> MediaWiki-l mailing list
> To unsubscribe, go to:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
>



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Re: [MediaWiki-l] Announcing: the Enterprise MediaWiki Consortium

Jasmine Smith
Just reading the below gave me a though. Particularly on:

> EMC, it seems, is mainly looking for companies which want to share maintenance costs for popular extensions


If this is the case, which 'popular extensions' does this include? Most ones are made popular because Wikimedia uses them (like checkuser) and are updated when they need to be. Will the EMC now be covering the updates for these rather than Wikimedia?

Another question is for popular sought after extensions which Wikimedia provides no support for, like CentralAuth. Would the EMC be in charge of this then? Make their own version? Or something else?

In terms of Mediawiki and it's extensions development, I'd love to see things being developed so it's more towards the wider community use and not just for Wikimedia own use, like SecurePoll and CentralAuth is right now.

I feel that having extensions like this - which so many other wikis would love to have, but only geared towards Wikimedia's own use goes against their own goal of sharing all human knowledge.

Jasmine.

> On 25 May 2017, at 09:24 pm, "Markus Glaser" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> Following the announcement of an Enterprise MediaWiki Consortium (EMC) by Yaron Koren, Brian Wolff and others asked about the position of the MediaWiki Stakeholders' Group (MWStake) with respect to this intiative. The announced enterprise consortium seems to be a structured organisation led by Yaron. MWStake is a user group and Wikimedia affiliation. We, MWStake, care for and are open to all involved parties. Naturally, EMC is also a stakeholder in the MediaWiki world and is of course always invited to join us.
>
> The stated goals of MWStake and the consortium are different - and complementary. MWStake is supportive of the existence of the consortium as it is of the many other organizations that contribute software to the MediaWiki ecosystem. We think Yaron's consortium can serve the purpose of providing an aggregation of funding to support development projects that might be too large for a single organization to fund themselves.
>
> However, MWStake's vision is broader. Our approach is to work as a community. We aim to foster the MediaWiki community and integrate them with concerted projects. We also seek to intensify the cooperation between third-party users and the creator/owner of MediaWiki, the Wikimedia Foundation. For that reason, the membership of MWStake consists of people from both WMF and the third-party community. We discuss common problems on a regular basis and work collaboratively towards integrative solutions and standards - because we have enough one-off solutions and extensions that reinvent the wheel. We'd like to focus on the challange of creating coherent systems. Following that approach, we aim to make the MediaWiki platform a first-class entity in the movement, as we see MediaWiki usage outside of WMF projects as part and parcel of the WMF vison. Specifically, "every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge" by providing them with the means for independently sharing their own knowledge.
>
> A word about institutionalisation: We plan to incorporate when the time is right. Presently, we think that this will be when we have finished some projects and have created a sufficiently large network of organisations and corporations that will join and contribute.
>
> Some of our accomplishments so far: We regularly open common places and communication channels for all stakeholders by organizing panels, presentations and discussions at conferences and meetings (e.g. the "Fantastic MediaWiki" track at the Hackathon in Vienna). Moreover, we are making requirements by third-party users visible (e.g. the MediaWiki user survey and feature wishlist). As individuals, we contribute to the MediaWiki project over a wide range of developments, bugfixes, code contributions and translations. These include PluggableAuth, HitCounters, DisplayTitle, extension store discussion, and more. Increasingly, we coordinate our concrete development efforts.
>
> So what are our next steps? We are going to restart the LDAP extension following the concrete plan of action which was devised in a public meeting at the Vienna Hackathon. We will improve extension documentation of  extensions maintained by members of MWStake (about 100) at MediaWiki.org. And we work on the visibilty of current MediaWiki developments to foster the attractiveness of the platform.
>
> We agree with Yaron's position that the organisations EMC and MWStake actually have different goals and strategies. EMC, it seems, is mainly looking for companies which want to share maintenance costs for popular extensions. Meanwhile, MWStake seeks to integrate and coordinate the efforts around MediaWiki without requiring a monetary contribution.  Any cooperation with organizations like EMC is welcome.
>
> We encourage MediaWiki users to work with Yaron and the EMC if that fits their needs, but we also welcome them to collaborate with the WMF and us to make MediaWiki better for everyone.
>
> This text was jointly written by
> Mark Hershberger, Cindy Cicalese, Richard Heigl, Markus Glaser
> MediaWiki Stakeholders Group
>
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: MediaWiki-l [mailto:[hidden email]] Im Auftrag von Yaron Koren
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 25. Mai 2017 19:54
> An: MediaWiki announcements and site admin list <[hidden email]>
> Betreff: Re: [MediaWiki-l] Announcing: the Enterprise MediaWiki Consortium
>
> Hi Brian,
>
> That's a reasonable question. Both this consortium and the MediaWiki Stakeholders' Group have the general aim of making things better for "enterprise" users of MediaWiki, but beyond that the two have surprisingly different goals and approaches. The MediaWiki Stakeholders' Group, or MWStake, has a large number of goals, but a big part of it, as I understand, is working with the Wikimedia Foundation and core MediaWiki developers to make sure that the needs and desires of enterprise users are taken into account. That sort of advocacy is not what the EMC is concerned with. On the other hand, MWStake also does some coordination on volunteer efforts at software improvement, so in that sense the two are more similar.
>
> I'm not familiar with a corporate sponsorship thing for MWStake, but even if that happens, the two are quite different in terms of their decision-making approach. Anyone can join MWStake, and then decisions are made (as I understand it) via discussion and consensus. With the EMC, you have to pay to get in, and then there's a precise system of weighted voting to allocate the funds.
>
> It certainly could happen that the two organizations could coordinate, yes.
> And some companies could end up being members of both. Nonetheless, I see these as distinct organizations, and it seems like there's a need for both.
>
> Thanks!
>
> -Yaron
>
>> On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 12:25 PM, Brian Wolff <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wednesday, May 24, 2017, Yaron Koren <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I'm very excited to announce the launch of the Enterprise MediaWiki
>>> Consortium (EMC), an organization devoted to supporting and
>>> maintaining "enterprise MediaWiki" software.
>>>
>>> As you may know, a lot of open-source software has some sort of
>>> organization or foundation that is intended to pool money from users
>>> of
>> the
>>> software toward developers. MediaWiki is in an unusual situation: it
>>> is funded by the Wikimedia Foundation (and, to a lesser extent,
>>> Wikimedia Deutschland and others), but those organizations' primary
>>> allegiance is
>> to
>>> software that runs on Wikimedia sites. That leaves a lot of
>>> MediaWiki-related software (extensions, skins, etc.) that is mostly
>>> intended for use on non-Wikimedia sites, i.e. "enterprise" uses:
>>> some of this software has significant usage, but very little of it
>>> has institutional support.
>>>
>>> That is where the Enterprise MediaWiki Consortium fits in. It is
>>> intended to fund the development of extensions and other software
>>> that otherwise
>> has
>>> no funding source. The set of software being funded is entirely up
>>> to the membership of the EMC, and of course the amount of support
>>> that can be provided depends on the amount of money that members
>>> contribute - an
>> amount
>>> that will hopefully grow over time.
>>>
>>> If you belong to an organization, company or website that makes use
>>> of MediaWiki - and specifically, of MediaWiki-related software not
>>> used on Wikimedia sites - please consider joining the Enterprise
>>> MediaWiki Consortium - to provide much-needed support for the
>>> software you use, and to have a greater say in shaping its future.
>>>
>>> You can read more about the EMC here:
>>>
>>> http://enterprisemediawikiconsortium.org/
>>>
>>> -Yaron
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> MediaWiki-l mailing list
>>> To unsubscribe, go to:
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
>>
>> Out of curiosity, what is the relation between this group and
>> MWStakeholders group. Im given to understand that MWStake was also
>> considering having a corporate sponsership thing too (I may bemistaken
>> on that though). Do you envision the two groups working together, or
>> do you see them as being entirely separate and independent?
>>
>> Best of luck in this new venture,
>>
>> --
>> Brian
>> _______________________________________________
>> MediaWiki-l mailing list
>> To unsubscribe, go to:
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
>
>
>
> --
> WikiWorks · MediaWiki Consulting · http://wikiworks.com _______________________________________________
> MediaWiki-l mailing list
> To unsubscribe, go to:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, go to:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
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Re: [MediaWiki-l] Announcing: the Enterprise MediaWiki Consortium

Yaron Koren
Hi Jasmine,

The set of extensions, and other software, that will be funded is entirely
up to the members of the Enterprise MediaWiki Consortium. I would guess
that the extensions chosen would be ones that are not only used heavily by
the members, but for which extra funding would have a big impact. So
extensions that are already maintained by Wikimedia probably wouldn't make
the cut. On the other hand, if there's some feature or improvement for,
say, VisualEditor that enterprise users want, and it fits in with the VE
developers' roadmap, then it's certainly possible that the EMC could
contribute some funding, or developer resources, for it. In that sense,
this organization is not that different from funding programs like the
Google Summer of Code.

I should note that it would also be possible for the Wikimedia Foundation
to become a member of the consortium itself, and to use this organization
to offload the maintenance of some extensions that it no longer wants to be
responsible for directly; but that's not my decision to make.

-Yaron

On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 12:41 AM, Jasmine Smith <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Just reading the below gave me a though. Particularly on:
>
> > EMC, it seems, is mainly looking for companies which want to share
> maintenance costs for popular extensions
>
>
> If this is the case, which 'popular extensions' does this include? Most
> ones are made popular because Wikimedia uses them (like checkuser) and are
> updated when they need to be. Will the EMC now be covering the updates for
> these rather than Wikimedia?
>
> Another question is for popular sought after extensions which Wikimedia
> provides no support for, like CentralAuth. Would the EMC be in charge of
> this then? Make their own version? Or something else?
>
> In terms of Mediawiki and it's extensions development, I'd love to see
> things being developed so it's more towards the wider community use and not
> just for Wikimedia own use, like SecurePoll and CentralAuth is right now.
>
> I feel that having extensions like this - which so many other wikis would
> love to have, but only geared towards Wikimedia's own use goes against
> their own goal of sharing all human knowledge.
>
> Jasmine.
>
> > On 25 May 2017, at 09:24 pm, "Markus Glaser" <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > Following the announcement of an Enterprise MediaWiki Consortium (EMC)
> by Yaron Koren, Brian Wolff and others asked about the position of the
> MediaWiki Stakeholders' Group (MWStake) with respect to this intiative. The
> announced enterprise consortium seems to be a structured organisation led
> by Yaron. MWStake is a user group and Wikimedia affiliation. We, MWStake,
> care for and are open to all involved parties. Naturally, EMC is also a
> stakeholder in the MediaWiki world and is of course always invited to join
> us.
> >
> > The stated goals of MWStake and the consortium are different - and
> complementary. MWStake is supportive of the existence of the consortium as
> it is of the many other organizations that contribute software to the
> MediaWiki ecosystem. We think Yaron's consortium can serve the purpose of
> providing an aggregation of funding to support development projects that
> might be too large for a single organization to fund themselves.
> >
> > However, MWStake's vision is broader. Our approach is to work as a
> community. We aim to foster the MediaWiki community and integrate them with
> concerted projects. We also seek to intensify the cooperation between
> third-party users and the creator/owner of MediaWiki, the Wikimedia
> Foundation. For that reason, the membership of MWStake consists of people
> from both WMF and the third-party community. We discuss common problems on
> a regular basis and work collaboratively towards integrative solutions and
> standards - because we have enough one-off solutions and extensions that
> reinvent the wheel. We'd like to focus on the challange of creating
> coherent systems. Following that approach, we aim to make the MediaWiki
> platform a first-class entity in the movement, as we see MediaWiki usage
> outside of WMF projects as part and parcel of the WMF vison. Specifically,
> "every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge" by
> providing them with the means for independently sharing their own knowledge.
> >
> > A word about institutionalisation: We plan to incorporate when the time
> is right. Presently, we think that this will be when we have finished some
> projects and have created a sufficiently large network of organisations and
> corporations that will join and contribute.
> >
> > Some of our accomplishments so far: We regularly open common places and
> communication channels for all stakeholders by organizing panels,
> presentations and discussions at conferences and meetings (e.g. the
> "Fantastic MediaWiki" track at the Hackathon in Vienna). Moreover, we are
> making requirements by third-party users visible (e.g. the MediaWiki user
> survey and feature wishlist). As individuals, we contribute to the
> MediaWiki project over a wide range of developments, bugfixes, code
> contributions and translations. These include PluggableAuth, HitCounters,
> DisplayTitle, extension store discussion, and more. Increasingly, we
> coordinate our concrete development efforts.
> >
> > So what are our next steps? We are going to restart the LDAP extension
> following the concrete plan of action which was devised in a public meeting
> at the Vienna Hackathon. We will improve extension documentation of
> extensions maintained by members of MWStake (about 100) at MediaWiki.org.
> And we work on the visibilty of current MediaWiki developments to foster
> the attractiveness of the platform.
> >
> > We agree with Yaron's position that the organisations EMC and MWStake
> actually have different goals and strategies. EMC, it seems, is mainly
> looking for companies which want to share maintenance costs for popular
> extensions. Meanwhile, MWStake seeks to integrate and coordinate the
> efforts around MediaWiki without requiring a monetary contribution.  Any
> cooperation with organizations like EMC is welcome.
> >
> > We encourage MediaWiki users to work with Yaron and the EMC if that fits
> their needs, but we also welcome them to collaborate with the WMF and us to
> make MediaWiki better for everyone.
> >
> > This text was jointly written by
> > Mark Hershberger, Cindy Cicalese, Richard Heigl, Markus Glaser
> > MediaWiki Stakeholders Group
> >
> >
> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > Von: MediaWiki-l [mailto:[hidden email]] Im
> Auftrag von Yaron Koren
> > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 25. Mai 2017 19:54
> > An: MediaWiki announcements and site admin list <
> [hidden email]>
> > Betreff: Re: [MediaWiki-l] Announcing: the Enterprise MediaWiki
> Consortium
> >
> > Hi Brian,
> >
> > That's a reasonable question. Both this consortium and the MediaWiki
> Stakeholders' Group have the general aim of making things better for
> "enterprise" users of MediaWiki, but beyond that the two have surprisingly
> different goals and approaches. The MediaWiki Stakeholders' Group, or
> MWStake, has a large number of goals, but a big part of it, as I
> understand, is working with the Wikimedia Foundation and core MediaWiki
> developers to make sure that the needs and desires of enterprise users are
> taken into account. That sort of advocacy is not what the EMC is concerned
> with. On the other hand, MWStake also does some coordination on volunteer
> efforts at software improvement, so in that sense the two are more similar.
> >
> > I'm not familiar with a corporate sponsorship thing for MWStake, but
> even if that happens, the two are quite different in terms of their
> decision-making approach. Anyone can join MWStake, and then decisions are
> made (as I understand it) via discussion and consensus. With the EMC, you
> have to pay to get in, and then there's a precise system of weighted voting
> to allocate the funds.
> >
> > It certainly could happen that the two organizations could coordinate,
> yes.
> > And some companies could end up being members of both. Nonetheless, I
> see these as distinct organizations, and it seems like there's a need for
> both.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > -Yaron
> >
> >> On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 12:25 PM, Brian Wolff <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Wednesday, May 24, 2017, Yaron Koren <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> I'm very excited to announce the launch of the Enterprise MediaWiki
> >>> Consortium (EMC), an organization devoted to supporting and
> >>> maintaining "enterprise MediaWiki" software.
> >>>
> >>> As you may know, a lot of open-source software has some sort of
> >>> organization or foundation that is intended to pool money from users
> >>> of
> >> the
> >>> software toward developers. MediaWiki is in an unusual situation: it
> >>> is funded by the Wikimedia Foundation (and, to a lesser extent,
> >>> Wikimedia Deutschland and others), but those organizations' primary
> >>> allegiance is
> >> to
> >>> software that runs on Wikimedia sites. That leaves a lot of
> >>> MediaWiki-related software (extensions, skins, etc.) that is mostly
> >>> intended for use on non-Wikimedia sites, i.e. "enterprise" uses:
> >>> some of this software has significant usage, but very little of it
> >>> has institutional support.
> >>>
> >>> That is where the Enterprise MediaWiki Consortium fits in. It is
> >>> intended to fund the development of extensions and other software
> >>> that otherwise
> >> has
> >>> no funding source. The set of software being funded is entirely up
> >>> to the membership of the EMC, and of course the amount of support
> >>> that can be provided depends on the amount of money that members
> >>> contribute - an
> >> amount
> >>> that will hopefully grow over time.
> >>>
> >>> If you belong to an organization, company or website that makes use
> >>> of MediaWiki - and specifically, of MediaWiki-related software not
> >>> used on Wikimedia sites - please consider joining the Enterprise
> >>> MediaWiki Consortium - to provide much-needed support for the
> >>> software you use, and to have a greater say in shaping its future.
> >>>
> >>> You can read more about the EMC here:
> >>>
> >>> http://enterprisemediawikiconsortium.org/
> >>>
> >>> -Yaron
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> MediaWiki-l mailing list
> >>> To unsubscribe, go to:
> >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
> >>
> >> Out of curiosity, what is the relation between this group and
> >> MWStakeholders group. Im given to understand that MWStake was also
> >> considering having a corporate sponsership thing too (I may bemistaken
> >> on that though). Do you envision the two groups working together, or
> >> do you see them as being entirely separate and independent?
> >>
> >> Best of luck in this new venture,
> >>
> >> --
> >> Brian
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> MediaWiki-l mailing list
> >> To unsubscribe, go to:
> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > WikiWorks · MediaWiki Consulting · http://wikiworks.com
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